Curse

Terrible Surgeon · May 15, 2010, 09:04 AM // 09:04

/not signed
Nerfing fast cast in pvp is long over due.

Zahr Dalsk · May 15, 2010, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Leave energy storage as it is; ether renewal is the problem.

And yes, nerf soul reaping. Crush it into the ground - in PvE. PvE is where we get all those problems with soul reaping.

Munkypoo7 · May 15, 2010, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

-snipped for pointles complaining post-

Maybe we should nerf you

Tenebrae · May 15, 2010, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Short answer : yes and no.
Changes to SR are so tricky anet dont want to go there again ..... dont think its gonna happen but sure , it needs a small nerf in terms of usage to make it less passive.

Smarty · May 15, 2010, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I don't know about how Fast Casting was used in PvE. All I know is that the advent of uninterruptible midliners in GvG killed shutdown and made the game quite a bit less interesting to play.

I can see your point where PvP is concerned, but why does it need to apply to PvE as well? They've already made the PvP/PvE split where recharge is concerned, so they should do the same where casting is concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Well I was just thinking, if we are going to nerf a profession so it can't use it's primary for skills outside of that profession (like divine favor doesn't work on any other class's spells) maybe we should make a rule that primary attributes and their skills should only work on abilities within that class.

Exactly. Way to nerf and pigeonhole mesmers in PvE yet again.

Reformed · May 15, 2010, 02:40 PM // 14:40

The change hasn't gone live yet so you've neither the opportunity to use FC in conjunction with the skill update nor the knowledge that this is actually the final alteration. Dragging SR back out into the sun for 40 more lashes is also very funny to me. It's not even half of it's former glory which truly was bottomless energy potential. Is this going to happen now anytime something skill related is released that people don't like? 'If I go down I'm taking you with me!' isn't a solution--get over it already.

Axel Zinfandel · May 15, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Dervishes and Paragons are next on Anet's list as they already stated, so if they're going to do anything it's those classes, then they'll see how everything is then.

/notsigned

Chthon · May 15, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Make soul reaping have a different effect. "Every time a creature dies within earshot, you get one Soul. The next Necromancer skill you use has its energy cost reduced by 1 for each rank in Soul Reaping. Can only hold three souls at a time."

That'll keep the theme, make Soul Reaping great for Necros doing Necro things, but it WON'T allow them to dominate any other profession by having a limitless energy pool.

Something like this was suggested repeatedly as an alternative to the timer, and a-net still went with the stupid timer.

Really though, secondary abuse by necros is largely a myth. Any class with 4 pips of regen and a modicum of e-management can abuse Resto. What other sorts of N/X do you often see in place of plain X?

UnChosen · May 15, 2010, 09:51 PM // 21:51

If anything every other primary attribute needs a major buff. Even with "infinite" energy the majority of players in the game FAIL horribly. All these calls for nerfs are like people saying Mario games are too easy when they're not the target audience in the first place.

jazilla · May 16, 2010, 05:31 AM // 05:31

with 15 in FC i can get meteor shower to recharge 45% faster. I think that is a great trade of for pve. as far as pvp is concerned, isn't it a buff really? do you know what I can do with diversion now?

Axel Zinfandel · May 16, 2010, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

with 15 in FC i can get meteor shower to recharge 45% faster. I think that is a great trade of for pve. as far as pvp is concerned, isn't it a buff really? do you know what I can do with diversion now?

By the looks of it, recharge effects mesmer skills only.

MithranArkanere · May 16, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Hold your horses, the change is not done yet.
Wait for the change, and make your pointless requests then.

Even with that huge energy pool, elementalists are still better being elementalists.
Maybe it would be better to change Ether renewal so it doesn't work with maintained enchantments, or only with elementalist enchantments, but Energy Storage is perfectly fine. Elementalists have the highest number of 25 energy spells.

Skyy High · May 16, 2010, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Something like this was suggested repeatedly as an alternative to the timer, and a-net still went with the stupid timer.

Really though, secondary abuse by necros is largely a myth. Any class with 4 pips of regen and a modicum of e-management can abuse Resto. What other sorts of N/X do you often see in place of plain X?

Necros have far more than a "modicum" of e-management.

Chthon · May 16, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Necros have far more than a "modicum" of e-management.

You missed my point. My point is that you do not need any more than a modicum of e-management to be able to abuse Resto. Carinae was able to do it with mesmers. You could probably do it with rits now that SoS+Spirit Siphon are buffed. I'd bet monks could manage with Selfless Spirit+AoS (though I'm not sure that they'd ever have a reason to prefer Resto to Healing+DF).So, what does all that energy from SR, above and beyond what you need to spam Resto skills, get you? Nothing. Like I said before, energy has a stairstep utility function, not a linear one. If you're looking at a backliner role, once you have enough energy to spam Resto, any more energy than that is useless until you get enough to spam bigprot, and then again useless until you get enough to maintain ProtBond. Yes, SR gives more energy than other options between the first and second stairsteps, but you have nothing worthwhile to do with that energy.

Midnight Sands · May 17, 2010, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

You missed my point. My point is that you do not need any more than a modicum of e-management to be able to abuse Resto. Carinae was able to do it with mesmers. You could probably do it with rits now that SoS+Spirit Siphon are buffed. I'd bet monks could manage with Selfless Spirit+AoS (though I'm not sure that they'd ever have a reason to prefer Resto to Healing+DF).So, what does all that energy from SR, above and beyond what you need to spam Resto skills, get you? Nothing. Like I said before, energy has a stairstep utility function, not a linear one. If you're looking at a backliner role, once you have enough energy to spam Resto, any more energy than that is useless until you get enough to spam bigprot, and then again useless until you get enough to maintain ProtBond. Yes, SR gives more energy than other options between the first and second stairsteps, but you have nothing worthwhile to do with that energy.

Your missing the point. Abusing SR is not limited the N/Rt, it allows necro's to spam skills from any class in PvE with 1. no restrictions (will work anywhere) and 2. completely passively. Nothing else in the game allows that.

Etheir way, not saying SR should be nerfed and ES isnt really that amazing, high energy bar =/ good emanagement, and tbh i think its pointless to base an argument on a change to an attribute that may or may not happen at a date not mentioned which are still subject to be changed, which from the OP's post seems to be what this thread is about.

Winterclaw · May 17, 2010, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Hold your horses, the change is not done yet.
Wait for the change, and make your pointless requests then.

Even with that huge energy pool, elementalists are still better being elementalists.
Maybe it would be better to change Ether renewal so it doesn't work with maintained enchantments, or only with elementalist enchantments, but Energy Storage is perfectly fine. Elementalists have the highest number of 25 energy spells.

What about ER infusers? That's probably a better use for an el in HM than trying to deal damage because an el trying to deal damage in HM sucks.

While I'm thinking about it, assassins promise probably needs to be moved to critical strikes to keep it from being abused by other classes.

Bobby2 · May 18, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

While I'm thinking about it, assassins promise probably needs to be moved to critical strikes to keep it from being abused by other classes.

In before flamefest.

Magragoc · May 18, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

The problem is, is that moving skill "X" to its professions Primary Attribute is the laziest "balance" possible. GW is supposed to allow much mixing of skills from your primary and secondary. All professions have skills that are used better by / supposed to be use by secondaries.

In the case of Assassin's Promise ...'Sins already have enough toys that they don't share. It's stupidly powerful, but also forms the backbone of some professions most viable builds.

The Drunkard · May 18, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

What about ER infusers? That's probably a better use for an el in HM than trying to deal damage because an el trying to deal damage in HM sucks.

While I'm thinking about it, assassins promise probably needs to be moved to critical strikes to keep it from being abused by other classes.

So you want to nerf energy storage to keep eles as eles, yet you've just stated that eles are useless as damage dealers (which is their main function). I'm not seeing your thought process at all.

/notsigned

dancing gnome · May 19, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Again, it's not like N/Rt is a problem.

The original point was Mesmers are deliberately being nerfed so that they play as mesmers, not as mesmers masquerading as elementalists or necromancers. This is to allow them to make mesmers more powerful without pushing them into the territory of other classes.

Necromancers are in the territory of ritualists and elementalists are in the territory of monks. The original point was the primary attributes of these professions allow them to perform ritualist roles better than ritualists.

He's just asking them to bring in line necromancers and elementalists the same way there are bringing mesmers in line with their recent buffs.

Seems fair to me.